We Trust Travis Podcast 2 – Pierceton Woods Academy Case Overview

Telling it like it is bringing the community together and working for justice attorney Travis McConnell talks, politics trending news, and how you can make a difference. You’re listening to you. We Trust Travis. Hi everyone, I’m Sarina Fazan I’m a journalist, producer, and the host of the We Trust Travis podcast. I’m here with Travis McConnell, a personal injury attorney with a huge passion for the community. And we thank you for joining us for this episode. So let’s get to it. Hi Travis, how are you? Good to see you again. Good to see you too. And we are talking about a very troubling case today against the Pierceton Woods Academy that is in Indiana. Can you talk about your lawsuit that you have filed? And this is a civil case against a school.

This is yes. We have filed a lawsuit against Pierceton Woods Academy. The organizations that run it as well as several individuals that work there on behalf of a client who was sexually assaulted while he was living there Pierceton Woods Academy is basically an inpatient or it’s a residential facility for youth in need of services. And it’s designed allegedly to help youth move on. They don’t quite work that way for our client.

Let’s go back to the school a bit, if you could just establish it is a, it is a school for troubled youth. Would you say, and for it’s for boys?

Yes. It’s specifically for boys and yeah, I mean, it’s an, it’s a, it’s a faith-based organization that’s set up to help boys that have been victims of sexual assault, or they’d been sexual perpetrators themselves, as well as some kids that just need help moving on to independent living that might be in the foster care system or things like that. It’s for kids in need of services. Typically that they’re placed there, it’s not so much something where like parents send their kids there. It’s not a private school or anything like that. It’s more of something where you get typically court ordered to go there or court place there.

And when you are placed there through the court, is it because of a sexual incident that occurred to them? Or could it be anything?

Sometimes it’s because of a sexual incident that happened to them. Sometimes the kids, a lot of times, maybe a perpetrator of a sexual crime or a delinquency who’s since they’re juveniles. And they may be placed it for that. Or it may just mean that they’re not able to be home for whatever reason they’ve been taken away and they don’t have anywhere else to go. There’s not a foster care family for them. And they ended up being placed there.

So with this, with this suit, how did this come to? You did the there’s a 17 year old boy involved. Can you just go through the lawsuit? I know you’ve touched upon it, but we actually printed out the lawsuit so we can even read a portion of the lawsuit. I think it is important to note that criminal charges have not been filed in this case, but you expect them to be filed.

Yeah. W th they should be filed. And we would have thought that in a filed by now, but we’re still hopeful that they will be so,

So with this case very strong allegations here. Let’s see why don’t we go through it? Sure. So tell us the basis of the case. I know you’ve already touched upon it, but the basis of a case is a 17 year old boy who says that he was, he, the allegation is that he was sexually assaulted by a 25 year old female working at the facility as a counselor.

Correct? Well, she wasn’t technically a counselor. She was acting as a counselor without any of the like, background to actually be a counselor. So she was, I think, classified as a mentor or a independent living specialist or something like that. But for all intents and purposes, she’s acting like a

And I do think it’s important to know the 17 year old young man is not the one who called authorities. It was actually somebody else who called authorities. And then the investigation pursued, correct?

That’s correct. We believe that it was probably another staff member that called, but we’re not entirely sure exactly who that was. There are several witnesses that we’ve spoken with and that were involved in the investigation, things like that. But yeah.

So when that person called that opened up the investigation, the chief of police actually went to the school, right. And started the investigation

He did. And the reason why the chief handled it as opposed to just an ordinary officer or detective is the chief actually had a similar type of situation where he investigated the same perpetrator before a couple of years before this back in 2017, where there were similar allegations. And they were the same perpetrator that’s on our case, got away with it. One would say and we’re still working there. So he wanted to handle the case himself directly to make sure and put together a strong case against her.

Fascinating. Now, did the chief of police tell you that story? Or how do you know this story?

I’ve spoken with them a little bit, but I’m not sure if he told me that exactly. Or if I’m paraphrasing or putting things together. I couldn’t recall, but I know that he was involved in the initial investigation, as well as the

That’s certainly interesting information though. So what is the status of the criminal investigation as far as you know, because I want to get into your lawsuit, of course, but as far as the criminal investigation, what is the status of that? Do you know?

Well, the police chief recommended charges. And as far as we know, though, that recommendation of charges and police reports been on the prosecutor’s desk since February of 2020, and no charges have been filed, which is been extremely frustrating.

And I do think it is important to know in any case it is the, the police or the Sheriff’s office can make recommendations to the state attorney’s office. And the state attorney didn’t take it to the state attorney’s office, but it is always ultimately up to the state attorney and the prosecutors on whether or not they’re going to take the case.

Correct. Yeah. In Indiana, we don’t call them state attorneys, Florida. They are, but they’re, they’re just prosecutors in Indiana,

But I’m glad you pointed that out because your podcast is nationwide. Right. So in this case, isn’t an Indiana case. So they’re, they’re just prosecutors.

Yeah. They’re called prosecutors and deputy prosecutors for the optimum, the ones that are not, we are taping

In our studios here in Tampa, Florida. So here we call it

The state attorney’s office. Yes.

So we just so interesting because Travis has actually he could practice in both States. Correct. And you do, and he does practice in both States. So I’m glad that you pointed that out. And that’s why I enjoy podcasts so much because they are conversations and there are things that we need to bring that up.

So I actually worked for the assistant. I worked for the state attorney in Pinellas County, Bernie McCabe, while I was in law school. So as a intern over the summer, I believe it was years ago.

So you really understand to the intricacies of, of that side, as well as the other side,

Probably not as well as like a seasoned prosecutor, but I definitely know how it works. Yeah.

So talking about, again, this very troubling case Travis, you filed a civil lawsuit about in October, in October of 2020. And tell us about some of the allegations.

Yeah. So we have alleged theories of battery against the actual perpetrator that committed the batteries against my client, which that’s just an unwanted touching. So that’s the sexual assault that happened. And then we’ve also alleged theories of negligence against the facility for allowing her to continue to be there because of the 2017 allegations taking no actions to prevent that or put safeguards in place to make sure that sort of thing doesn’t happen again, specifically with her, but also in general, the witnesses that we’ve spoken with the facility has terrible policies or policies. Even the ones that are good are not enforced where there’s basically a culture that things happen and people get away with the, because they deliberately don’t want people to report things when things are reported, they just insisted the kids are aligned and cover up and ignore things instead of actually looking into them and disciplining people.

So reach with some of these and you don’t have to read all of them. They’re very troubling actually, but read to us. And when we go to number 12 here, and the factual background, you do have, again, some very serious allegations of what this young adult female do.

Yeah. So the type of tactics that she would use is the paragraph here for an interest. So the type of tactics, activities that she engaged and included, but were not limited to the following working to change the hearts of the residents by earning trust, through promises and counseling inducing, or encouraging residents to use drugs and promising that she would not report said use to supervisors, falsifying drug screens for residents, repeatedly telling residents that they were at quote in the circle of trust that was afraid she would use for there’s multiple victims. And every single one of them use that same phrase. It was kind of like an Mo that the DCS and the police picked up on in a circle of trust. So engaging in dirty talk and encouraging gossip related to the same, the kids would all talk about it. This perpetrator’s husband actually worked there and the kids would actually insult him like I’m sleeping with your wife, things like that.

And encouraged gossip at the facility kissing full-frontal hugging was what, one of reports and witnesses talk about. And I’m exactly sure what a full frontal hug looks like. But I suppose we could all imagine hand-holding allowing and encouraging hands to be placed on the buttocks or other areas of the body, fondling of her buttocks, her breasts, and the genitals of both her and the residents requesting residents to penetrate her vagina with their fingers, performing oral sex on the residents, and then engaging in sexual intercourse or sexual assault with residents on their 18th birthday and beyond.

It’s so troubling that it’s even hard to hear her. And you’re a parent of two children. I am a mom as well of a 13 year old. When you read something like this, I mean, you wrote it right. And these are the, I mean, these are the allegations. Just talk to me to you as a dad.

I mean, while I wrote this lawsuit, I was extremely upset like, like a righteous anger sort of thing like that. This has happened in a while simultaneously like excited that I get to bring justice potentially, hopefully for this, this family and moving forward with this, that’s part of why I love being a lawyer. So it’s extremely frustrating and like reading through the reports and the more I go through them and the more witnesses that I talk to it’s just, it gets worse and worse. And it’s just crazy.

Father come to you of the 17 year old. How did he approach you? Or how did you, how did you know him

Was actually referred by another attorney who I think he reached out to them for assistance in the the placement type of case where the case was still in court and he was trying to get the child out of the facility. So he reached out to somebody about like, Hey, I need to get my kid out of there because things are happening. And in that conversation with, can you help me in this family law issue with which I don’t do family law and get my kid out of this placement facility, he talked about some of the things that had happened, and that attorney was like, you need to call this guy and hold them accountable for this sort of thing. If that’s something that you want to talk about. And then he called me about that

The 17 year old was removed from the facility he’s in counseling now, from what I understand, that’s correct. Yes. And and he’s back at home with his father and he’s back at home with his dad. So how hard though is a civil case to prove when there are no criminal charges,

The two are kind of mutually exclusive. So they, they each have different standards of proof. Which means how much evidence is required to prove your case. So a civil case is actually arguably easier to prove than a criminal case because the standard of proof is lower. In the criminal case. We’ve all heard about beyond a reasonable doubt or beyond a shadow of a doubt. It’s beyond a reasonable doubt is the actual legal standard, which is a pretty high standard to me that there’s no reasonable doubt that this person is guilty. If there is a reasonable doubt, you’re supposed to find them not guilty. In civil cases, you only have to prove your case beyond by more likely than not. It’s, what’s called the preponderance of the evidence. So if we look at percentages, sometimes lawyers will use, you’ll talk about beyond a reasonable doubt, being close to 90%.

Plus sometimes people talk about 99%, more likely than not is an easy one that we can actually put a real number on. It’s more likely than not just means 50.1. It’s just more than half is more likely than that. So it’s a lower standard of proof. So some would say it’s easier to prove. However, in criminal cases, usually the power of the state is very strong and have some more overwhelming evidence and people tend to believe law enforcement and they tend to have the benefit of stronger witnesses that people tend to inherently believe. In civil cases that’s less of an issue. So I’d say that they’re both, they, civil cases are typically easier. And like, I’ll give you an example, OJ Simpson.

Yes. I was about to say that is, that is the biggest case that we can all think of. Right? So OJ Simpson of course found not guilty in a criminal, in a criminal courtroom, but civilly, the family did prevail,

Correct. They ended up getting a verdict against him through, I think it was several million dollars. I forget exactly how much it was, but they prevailed in the civil case while on the criminal case, he was found not guilty.

So let me ask you though, he was found not guilty and, you know, we can of course go back to OJ, but for anybody say you file a civil lawsuit. And again, these are very serious allegations against this individual. Could she come back if she’s found not guilty or if she was, if there’s no criminal charges ever filed, could she come back at you? And the father in this case and Sue for defamation of character

Anybody can see anybody at any time. So the question like, can you, shoe is if you have a filing fee and a few pieces of paper and some ink you can Sue anybody you want, whether or not she would prevail is the really the bigger issue. And I would say the likelihood of prevailing on that is no, because it’s slim to none because there’s evidence to support all of the allegations that we’ve put forward, just because you’re found not guilty. It doesn’t mean that you’re not liable civilly again at the OJ situation. So you can be found, not guilty or never have charges filed and still be held accountable civilly. And there’s no defamation. The defamation would be, she would have to prove that what we have said was false and that was made with reckless disregard for its falsity against her. And there are witnesses to backup every single one of our allegations. In addition to the victim, in the case,

I know you have not taken this case to court yet. You’ve just filed. I mean, you’ve taken it, you filed the lawsuit, but I mean, it has not gone before a judge or right. Would it go before a judge in this case,

But would be a judge or a jury or a judge or jury,

Have you decided now, have you thought about that? Like, do you have the option to choose a judge or the option to choose a trial by a jury?

We had the option to choose travel a jury, and we’ve demanded a trial by jury in our lawsuit. Why did you demand a trial by jury? Typically because juries are more, more reliable. I can say

They, their parents, a lot of, you know, I mean they can just my, you know, my 2 cents, I guess a judge, of course I have many friends that are judges. I’ve worked in this career for a long time, but it’s just one, it’s a judge. Of course, it’s one person. And not saying that they can not make a solid decision and be very, very fair. When you do have a jury, you have multiple people listening to the case.

There’s something magical that happens when a jury goes back into the room and deliberates, when you take six or 12 people, depending on the case, and you require them to talk, work things through, hear things and deliberate, it’s that consensus that comes together. That it’s, it’s a magical thing. It’s something that the founding fathers recognized it’s built right into the constitution that you have the right to a trial by jury and the jury of your peers. It’s instead of having a a lawyer like myself who ends up becoming a judge, hear your case, you get to hear your case with regular people, as opposed to just having a judge decide. And like you said, they’re very fair, but there’s something about having people bounce things off each other, work things out to where, like there’s a magical thing that happens when juries deliberate and juries have the benefit of their common sense, the benefit of hearing everything and being able to put that all together.

How soon do you hope to bring this

To trial? Most likely on this case, a jury trial probably wouldn’t happen for at least a year, if not two, just because sometimes a lot of people don’t realize that the wheels of justice may kind of turn slowly a year would be pretty quick actually most cases to get to a trial take at least two years or between a year and two. So, and some can take longer. I have some cases now that have one in particular that got bumped because of COVID. So,

Well, that was my next question. Do you feel like with a case like this or any case, any of your cases because of COVID in this unprecedented time that we’re living with this with the coronavirus crisis and concerns, are, are all cases delayed? I mean, I know here in the state of flow,

Yeah. They, they basically shut down civil trials for several months because basically it wasn’t a necessary or essential type of thing to do in an effort to safeguard. There were very few trials that are happening even still, they’re doing very few trials. So everything’s been bumped out. I had a trial that was settled last April that got bumped till the fall, this coming April. And we’ll see if it actually goes forward in April, or if it’s going to get bumped again, because coronavirus is still here. So I don’t know if it’s going to happen yet or not, but we’re still set for right now. And that was a trial that we actually had set the year before that, that already got continued once. So she’s been waiting. It would be five years come April for her trial.

Wow. Well, back to this case against the Pierceton Woods Academy, can you talk to me about the evidence that you’ve compiled in this case? I know you do have to be careful because the case has not gone to trial and I don’t know what you can reveal, but can you talk to us about some of the evidence that you well? So we talked

About the allegations of what she’s done. There’s multiple witnesses. As far as the, the victim, she actually had three different victims that were kind of involved in this string of events that happened in it. So there’s my client. And then there were two others. And so all of them cooperated with law enforcement.

And that’s what I wanted to ask you next. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. So yes, in the lawsuit, there’s three, there’s three young people who are mentioned, are those, are they all working with you as well? They cooperated with law enforcement. I know, but are you also in contact with them with this case?

I only represent one of them. The other ones are not, I’m not representing them, but we plan to locate them and talk with them. But right now we have the benefit of statements that they’ve made to law enforcement, that we have the benefit of referring to as far as what the statements backing up these allegations, as far as what exactly happened. A bit part of the lawsuit too, is actually against the corporate entities that are in charge of these individuals that run the facility. And some of the key management officials that allowed this to happen and not only to happen, but to cover it up. So there’s a conspiracy account to our lawsuit as well. And we’ve spoken with

The alleged perpetrators. Husband is actually even made is named in the suit.

Yes, because her husband was actually a supervisor over top and his position allowed him to discipline the children to keep them quiet when they would try and come forward and make allegations, he would often threaten or to actually give them disciplined and to either get them to not report things, or if they had reported things to get them to retract them is the allegations that we’ve, we’ve spoken with on the half dozen different witnesses that back up each of the allegations in the complaint. And there’s actually additional in speaking with the witnesses, the disturbing part has been in addition to the, what we knew had happened from the reports that we had the benefit of in talking with our client there’s probably another five or six different victims on top of these victims and other perpetrators in addition to this perpetrator, because just the lax policies and the wild West cavalier nature of what happens there, where they don’t do anything to hold people accountable, and they allow these sorts of things to happen. This is the perfect place to work. If you’re a pedophile, you go there, they cover it up. The, a lot of the kids that are there have issues and pass that are troubled. That’s why they’re there is to help those kids. And so when they make an allegation against you, you said, well, you can’t believe that kid, he did X, Y, Z. Why would you believe him? And, and then they back you up on that.

That’s so troubling. And also something else is that this is not, it’s a faith-based nonprofit organization for troubled teens or for juveniles that are court ordered to go. So it’s not a traditional school either. Where, so I would imagine that the people that work at the school, or also in a position of leadership where the children have to comply, correct, you can do school is actually pretty small.

It’s not, it’s more of just a placement facility where they’re living in residential. The school component is actually, there’s a small classroom where they, their website talks about it being self-paced. I’m not quite sure how that would work, because if I was a sixteen-year-old kid has issues, my pace is probably going to be non-existent. So I don’t know how you allow the kids to make their own pace, but a lot of it is they’re just supervising them in the facility. And they, they have counseling that they’re going through. They have programs to try and help them work through their issues and make them better. And they, they tout a success rate of kids going on and being successful. And in that may be the case, I don’t know, but they need to really evaluate and look deep and fix the issues that are going on.

I mean, some people have talked about on this case I’ve had people like, I hope you shut that place down. And my goal is not necessarily to shut the place down. My goal is to get their attention and make them be held accountable, number one. But for them to take corrective action, they have good programs that can help kids, but they need to help the kids, but also make sure they’re not hurting them. And that’s where, like, maybe they’ve got good programs here, but then they don’t have good policies here and they need to clean house and actually take things seriously instead of downplaying, ignoring, and covering things up. And if they do that then great, if not, then maybe they need to be shut down.

Do you know the history of the school? Like how long it has been around and how many young men are, are at the, and I shouldn’t say school, the Academy, you know, Pierceton Woods Academy, how long it has been around and how many young men,

I don’t know exactly how long it’s been around, but it’s been quite some time. I think it’s been over a decade. We’d probably look it up and then, you know, splice the sound,

It’s a non-profit though. It is a nonprofit, which means that I’m sure it’s funded a lot through donations, grants, federal programs, perhaps. Yeah,

Well, they actually get a lot. I’m not sure how much of their money comes from donations. They get a large amount through funding from the state, because since it’s a placement facility for DCS and the courts, they get money from the state for each child, that’s there and they get a large amount of money for the children. We have a copy of the bill for our client and the breakdown of the money. And so it, it doesn’t seem to be, it shouldn’t be a money issue. That’s holding them back unless they’re not handling that money appropriately. So

How is, how is the, your client doing, how is this young 17 year old man doing it at this point? And how is this father doing?

Well, the, my client’s not doing great. He’s he’s glad to be out of there. That was, it took a minute when we first found out about it, he was still there and he stayed there for, I think a month before we ended up getting him out and him being released, they did transfer him to a different facility under the same umbrella of the corporate. But the ironic part was it was the facility where his abuser used to be at. So they just shift people around. And if there’s a problem here, there’s problems in other places. But the, so he ended up getting out and started counseling while he was out, which has been helping him. But there’s such a wall, I think because he, he basically has lost all trust. I mean, the person that he was supposed to be able to trust is the person who ended up abusing him.

So now he doesn’t trust people. So his counselors that he’s going to now, I had the benefit of speaking with one of them is they don’t really, he doesn’t really tell them much of anything. They didn’t realize half of what had happened because he’s not telling them because he doesn’t trust them yet. So it’s, it’s building that initial trust and getting the game that, which is going to take a long time. His father has said he’s not the same child that he was before. He’s not the same individual. He can tell a difference. He noticed that initially when he was actually still there and asked him about what kind of what’s going on and kind of found out actually from him as opposed to the facility telling him. But yeah, so he’s, he’s, he’s doing okay. And then he’s not there, but he’s not doing great.

He’s out, he’s had a couple of part-time jobs. Those have gone. Okay. But he’s not doing well at them. I think he got laid off from one because of some issues. She’s got a lack of motivation, as well as the trust issue and other things that he’s working through. He’s still been unwilling to talk extensively about what happened, because he’s still trying, even with me we’ve talked to him, I try not to push him too much because I don’t want him to have to relive that trauma necessarily until he’s ready for it. But at some point we’re going to have to have that conversation and I’ve let him know that. And you know, when you’re going to have to talk about that at some point, and they’re going to ask you questions about it in a deposition about it at some point too. So

Prepare victims for that and alleged victims for that, because it is such a delicate, I mean, any type of violation, of course, any type of crime is awful, but this is a very extremely sensitive. And we’re talking about children. How, how do you prepare them to, you know, sit, sit on that stand. And even prior to sitting on the stand, the deposition POS process, how do you do it?

I mean, you explain how it’s going to go. You explain what sorts of types of things they’re probably going to ask about, but it’s mostly just explaining the process and letting them know what to expect that way. And maybe do like a little bit of a role-play. So they kind of get familiar with it. You don’t want to coach them on what to say necessarily, but you, you definitely want to let them know what to expect, especially someone in this situation like this, where it’s a very traumatic thing that they’re going to be asked about and let them know like, th these are the type of things are going to be asked about, you need to be able to be prepared to talk about that. And if you don’t want to talk about that, then we need to talk about, you know, maybe we can try and file motions with the judge to ask for protective orders in place. Typically for depositions are sensitive in nature. I always request that they be videotaped that usually keeps the other attorney on their best behavior as it were since it’s being videotaped sometimes

If it’s videotaped, do they just give a statement and they’re not, cross-examined,

It’s still a full-on deposition. It’s just, there’s a video present that records everything. So it’s the same sort of process. The only benefit is, well, there’s two benefits. The main benefit of videotaping, you can video record any deposition in the state of Florida or Indiana. And the main reason that you would do that is because you can then use the videotape in court if necessary. But I find that it’s particularly effective on sensitive witnesses because sometimes if you have a particularly combative attorney on the other side or an attorney that wants to poke buttons they’re less likely to do things that are inappropriate when it’s being video recorded and people are on their best behavior.

When I said, cross-examine, you don’t get cross-examined during a deposition, right? You D you do, you do get

The whole thing is basically a cross-examination cause the other, basically a deposition is I’m taking the other side’s witnesses. So the other attorney would ask to take my client’s deposition. It’s less confrontational than the typical cross examination in court, or definitely less confrontational. The one you see on TV probably. But it’s the same sort of thing, because usually in the deposition, in the discovery phase, they’re trying to just obtain all the information and then before trial, they’re gonna distill that down onto what they’re going to beat you up with on cross examination. So it’ll be more confrontational at trial, but it can be, it can get confrontational in the deposition deposition period, especially there’s different styles from different attorneys. Some people, if there’s an inconsistency, they’ll just let it go, but they’ll get you to really commit to it. And then they’ll beat you up on it later and not say anything in the deposition. Some people just go immediately to it in the deposition. So

Let me ask you so with this Travis, we talked about how it could take a long time before this goes before a jury. Is there a concern in cases like this, that the memories of witnesses fade, is it really important to capture these depositions quickly? Or what is, what is the process

With that typically the depositions are taken fairly early on in the case? That’s actually something that we’ve been considering on this case specifically in the last week or so. So we filed this case a little over a month ago and so yeah, I was actually talking about like, I think we’re working on scheduling depositions right now. I have my staff working on that to get the, my witnesses that are the people that I’ve talked with to make sure that they get on record and get that recorded before their memories fade before sometimes witnesses move. Sometimes you lose contact. And so it’s important to get that testimony preserved. As far as clients and defendants, a lot of times their lawyers maybe have them make notes, things like that to, you know, refresh their memory. Sometimes some lawyers don’t like to do that because then sometimes the notes you have to give the other side a copy.

But those are types of things to do is yeah, early depositions and get them recorded and then, ah, notes if you need to. So, but typically the process will be, even though a trial may not happen for several months the discovery process is going on in the meantime. So you file your lawsuit. The other side has to file an answer or some sort of responsive pleading that usually happens within for 60 days typically within the first 30. And then you move into the discovery phase. Discovery is you’re exchanging paperwork with sets of questions, answer these questions, send them back to me give me documents that you have, let me come look at things and then depositions. Sometimes you’ll take that position as before that, or not just depends on the sequencing. And there’s depositions of witnesses, there’s depositions of each other and the opposing sides. And then a lot of times before you go to trial, most often you’re required to go to a mediation to try and work it out and see if you guys can, if you can reach an agreement and resolve the case without having to bother a jury and go through and use the court’s resources. Because if every single case went to a jury trial, we wouldn’t be able to do that. Court system would be able to handle it. Most cases settle from 90 plus percent cases. So

Are you hoping this case does or you, or would you prefer that it goes all the way to, yeah,

Ultimately that’s up to my client to decide. I think he wants a story told. But you know, obviously we’re willing to talk settlement, you know, it’s the appropriate sort of way to go, where to go. And I do want to point out there advantages and disadvantages to each. I mean, if you go to a jury trial there there’s something cathartic therapeutic about being able to tell your story and go through that process. Especially if you win, if you lose, that can be also pretty devastating. It can also still be therapeutic that you got to tell it and you got at least got their satisfaction a million. Okay, well, they decided but with the settlements it’s certainty, you know, here’s the offer. If you take it, it’s done, it’s over and we can move on. And there’s, there’s a closure that will happen usually quicker than the trial, because usually for mediation at trial, you’re talking to several months, if not a year between the two.

If you request a trial right now depending on which place you’re in Florida or Indiana, which County, you know, bigger counties are more congested than smaller counties. A lot of the time. Even though they do have more judges, so it just depends where you’re at. But often if you request a trial right now, especially in the time of COVID, you might not actually get a trial for a year. Like if I go to a judge and say, Hey, I’d like a trial right now, I’m not gonna get a trial till December 20, 21 potentially

Isn’t that something. Well, we’re going to talk about this case on many other podcasts, but I do want to point out that Pierceton Woods Academy has made national news, not only with your lawsuit that you have filed, but there’s also been a connection with former vice president, Mike Pence. Yeah. the

CEO of Pierceton Woods Academy has some sort of connection with Mike pants. He’s appointed him to a couple of positions and the focus on their relationship is unknown, but there’s been a couple of witnesses that have talked about potentially the wives being friends or something like that. But yeah, there’s, they got in trouble a few years back in 2017. Not because the, the, the allegations with this individual that went away, but they weren’t providing the education that the kids were supposed to get back to that whole self-paced class. They actually, it was even worse back in 2017 apparently. And they got I think find by somebody at the state for not actually educating the children.

Yeah. There were allegations that they were breaking the law. Yeah. Indiana law. Well, we’re, we have a lot to talk about with this Pierceton Woods Academy and the case. And we certainly hope that the victim and the alleged victim and his family, you know, are, are doing okay on this process, but they have you Travis. That’s why we trust Travis. Sure.

But hopefully they’ll get justice because justice and closure only I can provide a little bit ultimately it’s up to a jury or a judge or the other side to make this right. And hopefully they will being a faith based organization, you would think that they’d take the moment and, you know, make sure that as the book of Isaiah stays to provide justice for people, they have not so far

Time we’ll see in time. Well, thank you so much, everyone for joining us for this episode of waitress, Travis. And again, we will be talking extensively more about the Pierceton Woods Academy case. So thanks for joining us.

Thank you. Thanks everybody

To learn more about Travis McConnell, head to Travis MC Law.com. Thank you for listening to We Trust Travis.